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Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby stoneman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:30 pm

Ya i like that approach.... change your skis not your wax.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby MikeK » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:47 pm

Haha - well I do change wax but sometimes it's just easier to grab waxless skis if it seems like it's going to turn into a science project. I have limited time to actually ski - I prefer to spend less time with my boots sinking in deep snow scraping and rubbing things on my skis and more time actually skiing... even if that means I slide 0.25 mph slower or have to make a few more zig zags when I climb.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby RobRox » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:22 pm

Once Spring sets in, I just hit the Green Klister as that padding layer and then wax as normal. That pad layer used to last for a month or so, skiing on groomed and ungroomed. Changing wax due to temps was more frequent than replacement due to wearoff. The softer klisters improve performance, but the green pad works well enough.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby Fisheater » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:35 pm

Mike, what leathers are you skiing? Alaska NNN? I prefer wax, if I am hardpack trail skiing I am trail skiing with the double camber Asnes surplus skis, no wax drag on those. If there is soft snow the Falketind 62's don't have wax drag. They aren't as fast as a double camber ski, but I like them much more than the S-bound. I didn't ride my bike with a baseball card in my spokes, and I really don't like my S-112 scales. I do use red, and red/silver, as I live in SE Michigan. Red/silver grips when red will not, I need to try purple/silver if it can keep me from using red.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby MikeK » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:39 pm

I have 3 different leathers Bob,

Alaska NNN-BC
Svartisen NNN-BC
Svartisen 75mm

For an Objective I would use pins so I could use plastic or leather. Probably would swipe the 3PC off my Tuas, although part of me is seriously considering a switchback. I really don't want to spend $1000 on skis and bindings though. I'll probably wait a few years until the Objective cools off a bit and pick up a pair in the summer.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby lowangle al » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:05 am

I think the three pin is a good choice Mike. I wouldn't wait too long to buy the Objectives, they can stop making it and used ones may be hard to find.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby MikeK » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:36 am

Meh... skis come, skis go. If that ski isn't available there'll be something different, and maybe better.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby lowangle al » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:51 am

Maybe you'll find a deal on old stock when they change the model, like with the vector/ ultravector. Don't get left out like I did with the charger BC. At least you know you want them, I didn't know I'd want a charger until it was too late.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby MikeK » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:31 am

The way they are going, I doubt there'll be much left over stock. I can't get a 178 right now anyway. It seems most people are going for that length even if they are lighweights. I want it for skiing tight trees, but I have no doubt that length is going be prohibitive compared to what I'm used to (my shortest ski now is 185 and non-rockered). I am heavy though, so no way I think I could really get away with the shorter versions.

I have interest in the Falketind 62 as well, as I'm sure that would be good as well based on what Bob has said (I don't want it for skiing icy resorts) but I really find fishscales more versatile.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby lowangle al » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:12 pm

Hopefully the market will be more saturated by the time they discontinue it and availabillity will be better.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby MikeK » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:25 pm

I'm actually just hoping they have some 178s left over at this time of year in a couple years when the price drops to $400-450.

Thanks to the Federal government I actually have some expendable income now, but I have far more pressing things to buy than skis. Like bikes for my kids ;)
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby RobRox » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:47 am

MikeK wrote:....so no way I think I could really get away with the shorter versions.
....
Something to that. Too short and a few seasons of skiing refrozen BC the patterned bases will have lost a lot of bite if the skis are too short. Also, the base material does "dry out", so you'll have to carry some F-4 wipes or similar on runs over an hour when the snow is refrozen/granular. That is escpecially true if the skis are too short, but also true if they are well matched in size.

Mid trip on the Greeley Ponds Trail, I swapped skis with a lighter companion, my Outtabounds for her Rebounds. I had grip, easier mobility and a bit more speed than I expected but she had more grip because I had kick-waxed nearely the entire ski and even the crispy/crunchy conditions had not worn it off yet (klister padded waxing, see earlier remarks). We switched back for the down hill. Afterwards my friend went looking for waxables.

PS: At the end of the down hill from Kancamaugus Pass to Depot Camp, all of my "out of pocket" waxes had been worn off. In fact they were probably worn off in the first 5 minutes of the descent, it was around that time I had to use the brakes.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby MikeK » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:48 am

Not sure I follow Rob, but I hot wax my waxless ski and always coat the scales with Easy Glide (non-fluorinated, it works better IME.

As far as length, I'm concerned about stability in deep(er) snow. My intermediate experience tells me my fore-aft stability is better with longer skis and I'm less likely to nose dive or go over backwards. I can dive a 185, 70ish waist ski in deep snow if I put all my weight on it. I don't tend to try to do that, but another mistake can snowball into that, so anything that keeps me up helps.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby lowangle al » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:56 pm

I'm not as sophisticated a waxer as Rob is with the klister for a base but I've been corking in polar wax on my no wax skis, tip to tail including the scales. After corking the scales I rub them with my palm to spread the wax for full coverage. The glide is as good as F4, it last longer and it's easy to reapply in the field. It's probably not the best option but my glide feels good and there is no drag. It's also quick, I can do two pair of skis in less than 10 minutes.

As far as ski length I got my vectors in a 170 and I weigh over 180lbs which is the recommended weight limit for them. After a long history of buying skis too long I decided to err on the short side and if they didn't work I'd give them to my wife. The shorter ski forced me to be more centered. It corrected my habit of over weighting the rear ski. Over weighting the rear ski served me well on light gear and prevented a lot of forward falls. I must have gone ten years without a faceplant, I considered it to be "defensive" skiing. It was preventing me from being a more aggressive skier. They cured a problem I wasn't even aware I had.

I'm not advocating that you get the shorter objectives, I'm just saying that sometimes sticking with something that doesn't seem to be working may help you learn something in the long run if you give it enough time to figure it out.
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Re: Wax or Scales, what's your flavor?

Postby MikeK » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:18 pm

I tend to fall forward, but I wouldn't call my style aggressive.

I've skied short skis for most of my skiing life, and now I tend toward longer skis. I ski those that are proper for my weight and don't really see any detriment except turning radius, and I ski skis with over 100m radius and stiff camber that are 200cm long. They aren't preferable for tight tree skiing, but it can be done. A 180cm, rockered board is short to me.
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