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toe crushing in T4

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toe crushing in T4

Postby sethk » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:07 am

Hello Everyone. I'm new to here. I have a question I thought I'd throw out there. I've been tele skiing for about 2 years on T4 scarpa boots, G3 targa bindings and stingray skis. I recently upgrade to Voile ultra vectors and x2 binding, still using T4. I tried this new set up out for the first time yesterday and I'm getting wicked toe crushing at the bellows which I've never had before. I was skiing on groomed trails in VT. I was wondering is the T4 to soft of a boot for this gear? Thanks
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby RobRox » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:15 pm

The bigger the ski, the bigger the feedback through the binding to the boot. T4s are for smaller skis and do well with them. Vectors are getting into big skis and require a bigger boot to manage the greater torque (feedback) their width creates.

T2 Eco or other 3 buckle tour-centric boot would solve the problem....mind, part of it is you are still working into the tele moves, but the boots you have are not up to it.
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby sethk » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:42 pm

Thanks for the input.Looks like i'll upgrade to a 3 or 4 buckle boot.
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby RobRox » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:59 pm

sethk wrote:Thanks for the input.Looks like i'll upgrade to a 3 or 4 buckle boot.
Fine, Keep the T4s and the rest. Some days a rolling tour is the best option; it's so nice to slap'em down and go (on the light gear).
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby lowangle al » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:12 am

It could be the X2s, the pivot point is farther back and it could affecting where the boot flexes.
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby sethk » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:03 am

RobRox I like my T4 they fit my foot really well and are good for touring.
Lowangle al I was wondering that also. The farther back the pivot point would affect the bellows in the T4.
I picked up some Scott boots last night and what a game changer it is.Much stiffer then the T4. Need some practice on the slopes now...
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby RobRox » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:16 am

Clear thinking all around.

lowangle al wrote:It could be the X2s, the pivot point is farther back and it could affecting where the boot flexes.

Sure, that would make a difference. Skiing on skis almost 20mm wider under foot would amplify the effect quite a lot, even if the skis had the same performance characteristics.

G3 Stingers (XCD) are 112/78/100mm @ 177cm suited to long days in soft snow and low angle terrain edge hold==modest >> torque==minimal
Voile Vectors (non pattern base) are 130/96/113mm @ 177cm suited to long days in any terrain, including, as Voile say it, "icy couloirs" edge hold==strong >> torque== stout
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby flyingcow » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:46 pm

I have a friend who very happily runs vectors with T4's. It is quite a bit of ski to turn with that boot, but my guess is if you tried hardwires, targas or original Switchbacks, you'd feel a big difference. In other words, you're already getting great advice from Rob and Al, and I'm really contributing nothing...
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby Dirk » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:04 am

No, the Cow contributes! Point being, there are two separate issues here. Toe crunch is a function of binding pivot point, not ski girth. T4s can indeed drive a ski like the Vector in the conditions they are meant for: unconsolidated backcountry snow. Problems arise on inbounds hardpack, where you need to get the ski up on edge. T4s don't really have enough torsional muscle to do that to a ski much wider than 80mm underfoot.
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Re: toe crushing in T4

Postby sethk » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:33 am

After skiing on them for a bit, it does seem that the crushing might be from the pivot point being farther back than my previous binding. I was skiing on wind swept hardpack. Next powder day maybe I'll try the T4 again. As for the conditions this week the scott boots seem fine.
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